Players josephpst3    

1,414

1,414

Players Tanks: 198 All Tanks   |   Recent Tanks
Tier Nation Tank Type Battles (Survived%) Damage Frags Spotted Mastery WN8 Win Other Players
10 B-C 155 58 Stats / Compare 25 (40.00%) 1,251 0.76 0.00 913 44.00% vs. Server
10 E 100 Stats / Compare 409 (34.96%) 1,823 0.90 1.16 1,541 51.10% vs. Server
10 E 50 M Stats / Compare 123 (13.01%) 1,253 0.56 1.61 766 39.02% vs. Server
10 G.W. E 100 Stats / Compare 882 (42.29%) 1,701 0.98 0.03 1,713 50.91% vs. Server
10 IS-4 Stats / Compare 152 (27.63%) 1,498 0.86 1.16 1,190 44.74% vs. Server
10 IS-7 Stats / Compare 72 (20.83%) 1,569 0.64 1.58 1,167 43.06% vs. Server
10 Jg.Pz. E 100 Stats / Compare 161 (34.16%) +2 1,881 -4.43 0.84 -0.01 0.67 -0.01 1,300 -13.81 49.69% -0.63% vs. Server
10 Maus Stats / Compare 481 (37.84%) 1,725 0.90 1.32 1,427 50.52% vs. Server
10 Obj. 261 Stats / Compare 303 (37.29%) +2 1,459 -3.99 0.72 0.02 1,145 -5.61 45.21% +0.03% vs. Server
9 212A Stats / Compare 289 (34.26%) 1,392 0.81 0.01 1,211 48.10% vs. Server
9 AMX 13 90 Stats / Compare 353 (12.46%) +4 597 -2.73 0.46 -0.01 2.43 -0.02 658 -10.54 42.78% -0.49% vs. Server
9 AMX 50 120 Stats / Compare 256 (17.97%) 1,287 0.70 0.72 1,058 44.53% vs. Server
9 B-C 155 55 Stats / Compare 422 (40.52%) 1,194 0.62 0.02 1,132 50.00% vs. Server
9 E 50 Stats / Compare 641 (18.72%) 1,319 0.89 1.74 1,266 50.08% vs. Server
9 E 75 Stats / Compare 213 (36.15%) 2,100 1.51 1.82 n/a 2,643 48.83% vs. Server
9 G.W. Tiger Stats / Compare 317 (40.69%) 1,909 1.27 0.04 n/a 2,456 49.21% vs. Server
9 Jagdtiger Stats / Compare 752 (38.83%) 2,067 1.40 0.72 2,128 50.27% vs. Server
9 Leopard PT A Stats / Compare 69 (11.59%) 821 0.51 0.84 511 42.03% vs. Server
9 T-10 Stats / Compare 173 (24.28%) 1,421 0.84 1.28 1,409 48.55% vs. Server
9 T95 Stats / Compare 26 (11.54%) 809 0.58 0.38 352 19.23% vs. Server
9 Type 4 H Stats / Compare 116 (22.41%) +1 1,210 +5.64 0.57 0.70 935 +0.32 41.38% -0.36% vs. Server
9 VK 45.02 B Stats / Compare 433 (36.26%) 1,432 1.04 1.08 n/a 1,393 44.34% vs. Server
8 AMX 50 100 Stats / Compare 170 (22.35%) 1,420 1.04 0.89 1,654 45.29% vs. Server
8 B-C 12 t Stats / Compare 9 (11.11%) 273 0.22 3.22 416 77.78% vs. Server
8 Ferdinand Stats / Compare 519 (42.77%) 1,676 1.53 0.78 n/a 2,277 59.15% vs. Server
8 Indien-Pz. Stats / Compare 226 (19.47%) 1,000 0.65 1.44 1,204 46.02% vs. Server
8 IS-3 Stats / Compare 364 (31.04%) 1,327 1.02 1.31 1,799 56.87% vs. Server
8 ISU-152 Stats / Compare 183 (30.05%) 1,464 1.04 0.56 1,619 50.82% vs. Server
8 Löwe Stats / Compare 1512 (21.56%) +5 999 -1.05 0.57 0.96 1,025 -2.51 48.08% -0.09% vs. Server
8 Lorr. 155 51 Stats / Compare 274 (33.21%) 1,161 0.75 0.03 1,226 45.62% vs. Server
8 LTTB Stats / Compare 143 (9.79%) 457 0.40 3.13 649 47.55% vs. Server
8 M40/M43 Stats / Compare 224 (41.96%) 1,102 0.69 0.01 1,110 54.46% vs. Server
8 O-Ho Stats / Compare 184 (24.46%) 1,225 0.74 0.98 1,450 49.46% vs. Server
8 Panther II Stats / Compare 253 (20.95%) 931 0.87 2.07 n/a 1,288 49.80% vs. Server
8 Pz. 58 Mutz Stats / Compare 18 (16.67%) 676 0.39 1.33 581 38.89% vs. Server
8 Rhm.-B. WT Stats / Compare 222 (30.63%) 1,246 0.90 0.32 1,111 49.10% vs. Server
8 Skorpion G Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 1,091 0.00 0.00 n/a 683 0.00% vs. Server
8 T-44-100 Stats / Compare 248 (12.10%) +4 815 -9.47 0.59 -0.01 1.43 -0.02 847 -19.69 44.35% -0.32% vs. Server
8 T26E4 Stats / Compare 625 (25.44%) +2 1,101 +0.03 0.91 1.14 +0.01 1,519 +0.71 51.84% +0.15% vs. Server
8 T26E5 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 1,555 1.00 2.00 2,244 100.00% vs. Server
8 T28 Stats / Compare 185 (36.76%) 1,151 0.89 0.64 1,249 51.35% vs. Server
8 T32 Stats / Compare 9 (11.11%) 573 0.00 0.89 479 55.56% vs. Server
8 Tiger II Stats / Compare 693 (34.92%) 1,398 1.19 1.61 n/a 2,001 49.35% vs. Server
7 AMX 13 75 Stats / Compare 84 (17.86%) 577 0.62 1.89 1,210 54.76% vs. Server
7 AMX M4 45 Stats / Compare 116 (26.72%) 1,016 0.95 1.06 1,516 50.86% vs. Server
7 Comet Stats / Compare 167 (9.58%) 640 0.68 1.63 888 44.31% vs. Server
7 Crusader SP Stats / Compare 126 (41.27%) 738 0.75 0.02 986 52.38% vs. Server
7 FV201 (A45) Stats / Compare 4 (0.00%) 624 0.50 1.00 n/a 608 0.00% vs. Server
7 G.W. Panther Stats / Compare 345 (36.23%) 1,429 1.11 0.03 1,992 49.28% vs. Server
7 IS Stats / Compare 200 (32.50%) 1,092 1.32 1.47 n/a 1,852 57.00% vs. Server
7 IS-2 Stats / Compare 71 (12.68%) 880 0.42 1.20 929 46.48% vs. Server
7 JPanther Stats / Compare 337 (34.72%) 1,192 1.30 0.86 n/a 2,073 56.97% vs. Server
7 KV-13 Stats / Compare 35 (11.43%) 567 0.69 2.77 n/a 927 60.00% vs. Server
7 Lorr. 155 50 Stats / Compare 221 (36.20%) 829 0.78 0.06 1,013 47.06% vs. Server
7 M12 Stats / Compare 151 (32.45%) 1,032 1.00 0.03 1,287 41.06% vs. Server
7 O-Ni Stats / Compare 126 (19.84%) 973 0.73 0.93 1,261 55.56% vs. Server
7 Panther/M10 Stats / Compare 63 (20.63%) 659 0.76 1.62 949 47.62% vs. Server
7 S-51 Stats / Compare 314 (40.45%) 1,331 1.02 0.04 1,852 56.37% vs. Server
7 St. Emil Stats / Compare 156 (22.44%) 726 0.63 0.42 783 37.82% vs. Server
7 SU-152 Stats / Compare 97 (23.71%) 1,075 0.93 0.43 1,478 47.42% vs. Server
7 T-43 Stats / Compare 95 (14.74%) 708 0.74 1.80 1,074 45.26% vs. Server
7 T20 Stats / Compare 41 (12.20%) 951 1.22 1.76 1,448 34.15% vs. Server
7 T25 AT Stats / Compare 176 (36.93%) 1,176 1.31 0.96 n/a 2,010 55.68% vs. Server
7 T28 HTC Stats / Compare 210 (25.24%) +1 891 -4.26 0.84 0.84 1,282 -7.05 49.52% +0.24% vs. Server
7 T29 Stats / Compare 393 (23.41%) 971 0.74 1.24 1,131 50.38% vs. Server
7 Tiger I Stats / Compare 227 (30.84%) 957 1.04 1.45 n/a 1,258 39.21% vs. Server
7 Type 62 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 0 0.00 4.00 n/a 261 100.00% vs. Server
7 VK 30.02 D Stats / Compare 273 (30.04%) 809 0.90 1.92 1,425 57.88% vs. Server
7 VK 45.03 Stats / Compare 3 (33.33%) 1,029 1.00 1.67 1,281 33.33% vs. Server
6 AC 4 Exp. Stats / Compare 5 (20.00%) 494 0.60 1.60 669 40.00% vs. Server
6 AMX 12 t Stats / Compare 169 (19.53%) 443 0.53 1.73 1,247 55.62% vs. Server
6 AMX 13 F3 Stats / Compare 77 (40.26%) 826 1.27 0.08 1,329 44.16% vs. Server
6 ARL 44 Stats / Compare 129 (29.46%) 655 0.68 0.59 1,116 51.16% vs. Server
6 ARL V39 Stats / Compare 23 (17.39%) 502 0.35 0.78 826 56.52% vs. Server
6 Škoda T 25 Stats / Compare 239 (15.48%) 588 0.77 1.71 1,089 47.70% vs. Server
6 Škoda T 40 Stats / Compare 55 (12.73%) 555 0.67 1.60 1,039 58.18% vs. Server
6 Cromwell Stats / Compare 742 (12.13%) +1 581 -0.78 0.80 1.89 1,114 -2.82 51.21% -0.07% vs. Server
6 Crusader Stats / Compare 96 (11.46%) 308 0.60 1.51 778 47.92% vs. Server
6 Dicker Max Stats / Compare 216 (34.72%) 812 1.09 0.74 1,628 53.70% vs. Server
6 FV304 Stats / Compare 114 (37.72%) 638 0.75 0.12 1,117 55.26% vs. Server
6 Hellcat Stats / Compare 3 (0.00%) 250 0.00 0.67 n/a 382 100.00% vs. Server
6 HT No. VI Stats / Compare 109 (11.93%) 689 0.82 1.31 1,201 54.13% vs. Server
6 Hummel Stats / Compare 356 (45.51%) 1,134 1.43 0.09 2,306 55.34% vs. Server
6 Jackson Stats / Compare 110 (37.27%) 836 1.10 1.18 n/a 1,860 66.36% vs. Server
6 Jg.Pz. IV Stats / Compare 197 (28.43%) 593 0.85 0.73 n/a 1,096 49.75% vs. Server
6 KV-1S Stats / Compare 24 (45.83%) 748 1.33 2.25 1,996 62.50% vs. Server
6 KV-2 Stats / Compare 1253 (35.59%) 840 1.06 0.81 1,634 54.59% vs. Server
6 KV-85 Stats / Compare 106 (25.47%) 707 0.86 1.06 n/a 1,342 61.32% vs. Server
6 M44 Stats / Compare 88 (37.50%) 753 1.01 0.09 1,387 51.14% vs. Server
6 M4A3E2 Stats / Compare 65 (18.46%) 566 0.80 1.37 1,114 50.77% vs. Server
6 M6 Stats / Compare 74 (13.51%) 511 0.41 0.95 787 58.11% vs. Server
6 MT-25 Stats / Compare 356 (9.27%) 243 0.37 3.83 592 53.65% vs. Server
6 Nashorn Stats / Compare 52 (23.08%) 970 1.13 1.15 1,873 48.08% vs. Server
6 O-I Stats / Compare 187 (24.06%) +2 709 -3.85 0.81 -0.01 1.10 1,192 -16.42 55.61% -0.60% vs. Server
6 Pz. IV S. Stats / Compare 72 (22.22%) 639 0.67 1.07 1,167 48.61% vs. Server
6 Strv m/42-57 Stats / Compare 151 (15.23%) 684 0.79 0.76 1,133 45.70% vs. Server
6 SU-100 Stats / Compare 102 (36.27%) 970 1.46 0.67 2,095 50.98% vs. Server
6 SU-100Y Stats / Compare 1 (100.00%) 1,542 2.00 1.00 3,936 100.00% vs. Server
6 T-150 Stats / Compare 282 (29.08%) +2 757 -3.23 0.97 -0.01 0.99 1,461 -10.91 55.67% -0.04% vs. Server
6 T-34-85M Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 328 0.00 2.00 n/a 218 0.00% vs. Server
6 T-50-2 Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) +1 0 0.00 1.50 +0.50 n/a 0 0.00% vs. Server
6 Type 58 Stats / Compare 105 (10.48%) 575 0.71 1.68 1,118 51.43% vs. Server
6 VK 28.01 Stats / Compare 217 (7.37%) 263 0.45 3.72 643 52.07% vs. Server
6 VK 30.01 P Stats / Compare 115 (14.78%) 462 0.44 1.70 n/a 695 46.96% vs. Server
6 VK 36.01 H Stats / Compare 168 (25.60%) 659 0.95 1.46 n/a 1,274 55.95% vs. Server
5 AMX 13 AM Stats / Compare 49 (38.78%) 556 1.22 0.16 1,245 38.78% vs. Server
5 AMX ELC bis Stats / Compare 150 (17.33%) 229 0.41 2.95 622 45.33% vs. Server
5 AT 2 Stats / Compare 4 (0.00%) 158 0.50 0.50 n/a 99 25.00% vs. Server
5 Škoda T 24 Stats / Compare 53 (9.43%) 277 0.38 1.32 531 41.51% vs. Server
5 BDR G1 B Stats / Compare 28 (21.43%) 237 0.32 0.61 338 53.57% vs. Server
5 Bishop Stats / Compare 37 (37.84%) 693 0.92 0.16 1,763 54.05% vs. Server
5 Chi-Nu Kai Stats / Compare 103 (13.59%) 415 0.83 1.01 1,125 45.63% vs. Server
5 Churchill III Stats / Compare 340 (30.59%) 570 1.18 1.36 1,528 56.76% vs. Server
5 Excelsior Stats / Compare 24 (25.00%) 416 0.92 2.17 945 58.33% vs. Server
5 Grille Stats / Compare 302 (43.05%) 698 1.33 0.11 1,860 51.66% vs. Server
5 KV-1 Stats / Compare 515 (37.86%) 701 1.27 0.77 1,788 57.09% vs. Server
5 leFH18B2 Stats / Compare 1150 (43.48%) 708 1.40 0.10 1,665 53.83% vs. Server
5 Leopard Stats / Compare 150 (12.67%) 161 0.39 3.59 427 53.33% vs. Server
5 M4 Improved Stats / Compare 41 (12.20%) 456 0.90 2.32 1,268 51.22% vs. Server
5 M41 HMC Stats / Compare 103 (48.54%) 1,071 1.12 0.09 2,167 58.25% vs. Server
5 M4A1 Stats / Compare 30 (20.00%) 469 0.77 1.83 1,326 66.67% vs. Server
5 M7 Stats / Compare 32 (15.63%) 223 0.50 1.56 n/a 798 62.50% vs. Server
5 Matilda BP Stats / Compare 136 (22.79%) 410 0.88 0.85 1,038 50.74% vs. Server
5 O-I Exp. Stats / Compare 35 (20.00%) 537 0.83 0.83 945 54.29% vs. Server
5 Pz. III K Stats / Compare 3 (33.33%) 72 0.00 2.33 n/a 0 33.33% vs. Server
5 Pz. IV H Stats / Compare 792 (26.26%) 541 1.05 1.18 1,654 54.80% vs. Server
5 Pz. T 25 Stats / Compare 65 (24.62%) 483 0.88 1.42 1,277 50.77% vs. Server
5 Pz.Sfl. IVc Stats / Compare 25 (16.00%) 614 1.20 1.12 1,722 52.00% vs. Server
5 Ram II Stats / Compare 406 (16.50%) 410 0.74 1.64 1,045 50.00% vs. Server
5 S35 CA Stats / Compare 23 (43.48%) 856 1.61 0.83 2,422 60.87% vs. Server
5 StuG III G Stats / Compare 110 (20.00%) 399 0.81 0.42 n/a 723 34.55% vs. Server
5 StuG IV Stats / Compare 49 (32.65%) 394 0.69 0.39 884 46.94% vs. Server
5 SU-85 Stats / Compare 70 (20.00%) 619 1.06 0.49 1,561 47.14% vs. Server
5 T-50 Stats / Compare 57 (8.77%) 95 0.26 3.04 187 54.39% vs. Server
5 T1 Heavy Stats / Compare 69 (13.04%) 565 0.83 1.20 1,223 52.17% vs. Server
5 T14 Stats / Compare 142 (18.31%) 458 1.07 1.66 1,052 54.23% vs. Server
5 Type T-34 Stats / Compare 65 (12.31%) 357 0.69 1.26 897 47.69% vs. Server
5 VK 30.01 H Stats / Compare 50 (16.00%) 469 0.82 1.86 n/a 863 42.00% vs. Server
5 Wolverine Stats / Compare 168 (25.60%) 516 0.94 1.01 1,266 51.19% vs. Server
4 A-32 Stats / Compare 78 (8.97%) 238 0.78 2.50 763 44.87% vs. Server
4 Alecto Stats / Compare 24 (16.67%) 407 1.00 0.88 1,118 41.67% vs. Server
4 AMX 105 AM Stats / Compare 13 (46.15%) 449 1.38 0.00 1,848 61.54% vs. Server
4 B1 Stats / Compare 4 (0.00%) 194 1.00 0.25 n/a 671 75.00% vs. Server
4 Birch Gun Stats / Compare 46 (32.61%) 311 0.83 0.13 1,157 47.83% vs. Server
4 Cruiser IV Stats / Compare 20 (5.00%) 211 0.50 1.50 662 45.00% vs. Server
4 Hetzer Stats / Compare 144 (29.17%) 369 0.92 0.51 1,060 54.17% vs. Server
4 Luchs Stats / Compare 25 (12.00%) 234 0.48 1.76 791 52.00% vs. Server
4 M37 Stats / Compare 74 (35.14%) 399 1.04 0.07 1,468 50.00% vs. Server
4 M5 Stuart Stats / Compare 39 (7.69%) 98 0.13 2.13 144 30.77% vs. Server
4 M5A1 Stuart Stats / Compare 19 (5.26%) 238 0.63 2.16 958 57.89% vs. Server
4 Marder 38T Stats / Compare 13 (23.08%) 577 1.62 1.15 2,057 69.23% vs. Server
4 Pz. 38 nA Stats / Compare 484 (15.50%) 119 0.36 3.49 326 54.13% vs. Server
4 Pz. B2 Stats / Compare 6 (0.00%) 355 0.83 1.17 989 66.67% vs. Server
4 Pz. III J Stats / Compare 341 (14.08%) 273 0.89 2.33 1,034 52.79% vs. Server
4 Pz.Sfl. IVb Stats / Compare 42 (40.48%) 418 1.26 0.19 1,477 42.86% vs. Server
4 SAu 40 Stats / Compare 13 (23.08%) 392 1.08 0.38 1,194 53.85% vs. Server
4 ST vz. 39 Stats / Compare 24 (12.50%) 202 0.42 1.17 493 41.67% vs. Server
4 SU-85B Stats / Compare 42 (23.81%) 407 0.81 0.74 n/a 1,032 47.62% vs. Server
4 T-28 Stats / Compare 6 (0.00%) 218 1.33 1.17 n/a 622 50.00% vs. Server
4 T40 Stats / Compare 33 (27.27%) 600 1.55 2.15 n/a 2,149 69.70% vs. Server
4 Type 95 Stats / Compare 17 (35.29%) 261 0.82 0.35 951 64.71% vs. Server
4 Valentine II Stats / Compare 6 (50.00%) 504 1.33 2.00 2,208 50.00% vs. Server
3 Chi-Ha Stats / Compare 5 (0.00%) 46 0.00 0.80 166 60.00% vs. Server
3 Cruiser III Stats / Compare 10 (30.00%) 198 0.90 1.60 978 50.00% vs. Server
3 FCM36Pak40 Stats / Compare 28 (35.71%) 458 1.36 0.54 1,407 42.86% vs. Server
3 Locust Stats / Compare 37 (18.92%) 200 1.00 2.86 993 59.46% vs. Server
3 Lorr. 39L AM Stats / Compare 8 (50.00%) 298 1.75 0.75 1,237 87.50% vs. Server
3 LT vz. 38 Stats / Compare 11 (9.09%) 74 0.00 0.73 184 54.55% vs. Server
3 LTP Stats / Compare 21 (28.57%) 241 1.29 1.19 1,307 57.14% vs. Server
3 M3 Stuart Stats / Compare 12 (8.33%) 150 0.42 2.50 n/a 638 58.33% vs. Server
3 M7 Priest Stats / Compare 81 (41.98%) 659 0.89 0.06 n/a 2,099 53.09% vs. Server
3 Marder II Stats / Compare 23 (34.78%) 249 0.91 0.48 n/a 809 60.87% vs. Server
3 Pz. 38 (t) Stats / Compare 21 (19.05%) 191 1.00 2.10 n/a 795 61.90% vs. Server
3 Pz. I C Stats / Compare 19 (15.79%) 170 0.84 2.53 706 36.84% vs. Server
3 Pz. III E Stats / Compare 35 (14.29%) 84 0.34 1.14 n/a 103 37.14% vs. Server
3 Pz. S35 Stats / Compare 361 (31.86%) 337 1.45 1.68 1,428 56.79% vs. Server
3 Sexton II Stats / Compare 21 (23.81%) 193 0.48 0.14 811 57.14% vs. Server
3 T-127 Stats / Compare 5 (20.00%) 209 0.40 1.20 n/a 549 0.00% vs. Server
3 T-46 Stats / Compare 32 (12.50%) 200 0.94 1.28 861 37.50% vs. Server
3 Type 91 Stats / Compare 8 (25.00%) 132 0.63 0.63 493 62.50% vs. Server
3 Wespe Stats / Compare 49 (26.53%) 364 0.96 0.12 n/a 1,475 48.98% vs. Server
2 Light VIC Stats / Compare 28 (14.29%) 115 0.71 2.25 555 42.86% vs. Server
2 Loyd GC Stats / Compare 16 (25.00%) 141 1.00 0.13 806 43.75% vs. Server
2 LT vz. 35 Stats / Compare 4 (50.00%) 84 0.25 1.00 n/a 285 50.00% vs. Server
2 M2 Light Stats / Compare 10 (20.00%) 176 1.10 2.30 n/a 1,067 70.00% vs. Server
2 Pz. 35 (t) Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 354 2.50 1.50 n/a 2,643 50.00% vs. Server
2 Pz. II Stats / Compare 310 (30.97%) 214 1.27 1.87 n/a 1,331 56.45% vs. Server
2 Pz.Jäg. I Stats / Compare 4 (0.00%) 193 1.00 1.00 n/a 650 25.00% vs. Server
2 T-26 Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 403 2.50 3.50 n/a 3,436 100.00% vs. Server
2 T-45 Stats / Compare 3 (33.33%) 101 0.67 0.67 n/a 335 33.33% vs. Server
2 T1 HMC Stats / Compare 8 (37.50%) 218 1.13 0.38 n/a 1,480 75.00% vs. Server
2 T1E6 Stats / Compare 41 (12.20%) 160 0.80 1.02 919 51.22% vs. Server
2 T2 Light Stats / Compare 93 (16.13%) 143 0.68 1.97 754 52.69% vs. Server
2 T3 HMC Stats / Compare 18 (33.33%) 188 1.06 1.39 790 50.00% vs. Server
2 T7 Car Stats / Compare 119 (20.17%) 152 1.01 1.70 968 50.42% vs. Server
2 VAE Type B Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 50 0.00 0.50 n/a 80 50.00% vs. Server
1 L.Tr. Stats / Compare 117 (32.48%) 169 1.09 1.51 971 50.43% vs. Server
1 MS-1 Stats / Compare 3 (0.00%) 122 1.00 0.33 n/a 483 33.33% vs. Server

Gold cost of prem vehicles: 0
USD Value: $0.00

Creadits spent on regular vhicles: 0
Credits to gold: 0

Total Gold: 0
Total USD: $0.00

1 gold = 400 credits | 250 gold =$1.00 USD
(This feature is in testing so might not be accurate)