Players Fumo_porro [CABJ]    

1,402

1,508

Players Tanks: 187 All Tanks   |   Recent Tanks
Tier Nation Tank Type Battles (Survived%) Damage Frags Spotted Mastery WN8 Win Other Players
10 Grille 15 Stats / Compare 78 (37.18%) 1,826 0.90 0.36 1,210 48.72% vs. Server
10 IS-7 Stats / Compare 30 (40.00%) +1 1,874 -27.63 0.77 -0.03 1.30 -0.04 1,515 -62.39 50.00% -1.72% vs. Server
10 Strv 103B Stats / Compare 20 (50.00%) +4 1,928 +80.55 0.95 +0.08 0.55 -0.14 1,282 +58.15 50.00% vs. Server
9 CC-1 Mk. 2 Stats / Compare 15 (20.00%) 1,370 0.87 0.73 2,822,031 46.67% vs. Server
9 Char Futur 4 Stats / Compare 11 (9.09%) 1,355 0.55 2.18 1,464,861 54.55% vs. Server
9 K-91-PT Stats / Compare 16 (18.75%) 858 0.38 0.38 1,286,728 37.50% vs. Server
9 Leopard PT A Stats / Compare 50 (22.00%) +7 1,291 +111.07 0.66 +0.08 1.50 -0.01 1,069 +130.76 48.00% -0.84% vs. Server
9 Obj. 257 Stats / Compare 53 (24.53%) 1,109 0.60 1.13 786 43.40% vs. Server
9 Obj. 283 Stats / Compare 17 (29.41%) 740 0.47 0.71 1,138,249 47.06% vs. Server
9 Strv 103-0 Stats / Compare 110 (38.18%) 1,467 0.69 0.49 1,078 43.64% vs. Server
9 VK 45.02 B Stats / Compare 40 (32.50%) +14 1,301 +191.54 0.63 +0.13 1.10 -0.02 1,197 +273.40 57.50% +3.65% vs. Server
9 WT auf Pz. IV Stats / Compare 207 (41.06%) +5 1,523 +39.07 0.82 +0.04 0.20 1,161 +47.58 51.69% -0.78% vs. Server
8 703 II (122) Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 1,144 0.00 0.00 n/a 974 100.00% vs. Server
8 AMBT Stats / Compare 50 (22.00%) +2 938 -0.68 0.46 -0.02 0.88 +0.07 1,304,278 -4,300.79 42.00% +0.33% vs. Server
8 AMX AC 48 Stats / Compare 71 (36.62%) +1 1,205 +19.38 1.06 0.49 +0.01 1,416 +37.33 56.34% +0.62% vs. Server
8 Caernarvon AX Stats / Compare 1 (100.00%) 595 1.00 1.00 651 100.00% vs. Server
8 Charioteer Stats / Compare 24 (45.83%) +11 908 +263.33 0.54 +0.16 0.38 +0.07 848 +322.67 54.17% +0.32% vs. Server
8 CS-53 Stats / Compare 62 (19.35%) +9 963 +22.31 0.48 +0.07 0.98 -0.02 1,450,437 +65,741.32 32.26% -1.70% vs. Server
8 Emil I Stats / Compare 32 (25.00%) 857 0.63 0.59 727 43.75% vs. Server
8 Ferdinand Stats / Compare 96 (35.42%) 1,273 0.80 0.26 1,188 50.00% vs. Server
8 G.W. Tiger P Stats / Compare 47 (42.55%) +6 1,030 -16.01 0.51 +0.05 0.00 1,006 -19.84 44.68% -1.66% vs. Server
8 Gonsalo Stats / Compare 11 (36.36%) 1,030 0.36 1.00 1,336,685 54.55% vs. Server
8 Guard Stats / Compare 44 (13.64%) 1,086 0.68 0.84 1,003 36.36% vs. Server
8 Indien-Pz. Stats / Compare 68 (26.47%) 1,029 0.60 0.72 1,063 36.76% vs. Server
8 IS-3 Stats / Compare 55 (21.82%) +8 1,002 -10.95 0.71 -0.10 0.84 +0.03 1,033 -59.64 43.64% -1.04% vs. Server
8 Ka-Ri Stats / Compare 143 (32.87%) +18 1,658 +78.23 1.06 +0.04 0.62 -0.03 4,204,677 +222,702.05 47.55% +1.95% vs. Server
8 KV-5 Stats / Compare 67 (22.39%) +1 971 +3.82 0.73 0.87 +0.02 1,015 +17.18 44.78% +0.84% vs. Server
8 Lansen C Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 501 1.00 2.00 352 50.00% vs. Server
8 Renegade Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 551 0.00 1.00 n/a 288 50.00% vs. Server
8 Rhm.-B. WT Stats / Compare 214 (36.92%) +3 1,182 +0.88 0.87 +0.01 0.17 970 +1.28 43.46% -0.14% vs. Server
8 Skorpion G Stats / Compare 286 (32.87%) +16 1,630 +14.40 1.01 -0.01 0.51 +0.02 1,728 +7.72 51.40% -0.82% vs. Server
8 SMV CC-67 Stats / Compare 99 (25.25%) +1 1,097 +1.69 0.64 -0.01 0.78 -0.01 2,251,681 +807.69 44.44% -0.45% vs. Server
8 TS-54 Stats / Compare 10 (0.00%) 491 0.20 0.60 n/a 613,949 0.00% vs. Server
8 TVP VTU Stats / Compare 21 (19.05%) 611 0.43 0.57 505 23.81% vs. Server
8 UDES 03 Stats / Compare 125 (44.00%) 1,173 0.74 0.33 1,093 48.00% vs. Server
8 UDES 14 5 Stats / Compare 91 (21.98%) +2 1,014 -7.06 0.57 -0.01 1.00 +0.01 945 -9.36 41.76% +0.19% vs. Server
8 VK 45.02 A Stats / Compare 78 (29.49%) +3 1,327 -12.92 0.72 +0.01 1.12 -0.02 1,660 -12.02 64.10% +0.10% vs. Server
7 AMX AC 46 Stats / Compare 52 (34.62%) 826 0.88 0.27 1,006 44.23% vs. Server
7 AT 7 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 241 0.00 0.00 n/a 0 0.00% vs. Server
7 Challenger Stats / Compare 63 (42.86%) 1,087 1.24 0.43 1,593 60.32% vs. Server
7 Chi-Ri Stats / Compare 34 (38.24%) +1 875 +17.87 0.74 +0.01 0.74 -0.02 1,262 +13.47 47.06% -1.43% vs. Server
7 CS-44 Stats / Compare 15 (33.33%) 1,042 1.33 1.60 1,444,392 73.33% vs. Server
7 G.W. Panther Stats / Compare 71 (42.25%) 761 0.72 0.01 794 50.70% vs. Server
7 Ikv 90 B Stats / Compare 33 (42.42%) 841 0.76 0.24 1,099 48.48% vs. Server
7 IS Stats / Compare 22 (9.09%) 780 0.32 0.68 763 40.91% vs. Server
7 IS-2S Stats / Compare 46 (30.43%) 1,053 0.72 0.67 1,701,513 47.83% vs. Server
7 JPanther Stats / Compare 42 (35.71%) 933 0.81 0.48 1,258 59.52% vs. Server
7 Leo Stats / Compare 62 (17.74%) 582 0.52 1.15 675 43.55% vs. Server
7 Lorr. 155 50 Stats / Compare 94 (42.55%) 841 0.77 0.02 965 47.87% vs. Server
7 SMV CC-56 Stats / Compare 59 (40.68%) 984 0.88 0.90 2,037,660 55.93% vs. Server
7 St. Emil Stats / Compare 148 (29.05%) 868 0.82 0.24 1,061 41.89% vs. Server
7 SU-152 Stats / Compare 33 (9.09%) +8 829 -65.47 0.88 -0.20 0.27 -0.05 981 -119.25 42.42% +6.42% vs. Server
7 Super Hellcat Stats / Compare 4 (25.00%) 1,492 0.75 0.50 1,942 25.00% vs. Server
7 T-34/100 Stats / Compare 68 (22.06%) 881 0.88 1.09 1,288 41.18% vs. Server
7 T-43 Stats / Compare 34 (17.65%) 692 0.41 1.35 836 38.24% vs. Server
7 T25/2 Stats / Compare 7 (28.57%) +3 1,305 -246.82 1.29 -0.21 0.86 -0.39 2,088 -690.30 42.86% +17.86% vs. Server
7 T29 Stats / Compare 33 (21.21%) +3 921 +25.70 0.58 -0.06 0.76 +0.06 904 -15.34 42.42% -4.24% vs. Server
7 Tiger (P) Stats / Compare 36 (33.33%) 1,175 0.94 0.83 1,763 55.56% vs. Server
7 VK 30.02 D Stats / Compare 41 (26.83%) 726 0.85 1.49 1,157 51.22% vs. Server
7 VK 45.03 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 694 1.00 1.00 935 100.00% vs. Server
6 40TP Stats / Compare 29 (24.14%) 718 0.62 1.03 1,397 62.07% vs. Server
6 Achilles Stats / Compare 107 (36.45%) 800 0.90 0.51 1,432 50.47% vs. Server
6 AMX 12 t Stats / Compare 54 (14.81%) +6 384 +29.08 0.59 +0.05 3.80 +0.11 991 +148.83 50.00% +4.17% vs. Server
6 AMX 13 F3 Stats / Compare 51 (56.86%) 791 0.82 0.06 1,237 56.86% vs. Server
6 ARL 44 Stats / Compare 85 (20.00%) 782 0.78 0.99 1,487 50.59% vs. Server
6 ARL V39 Stats / Compare 44 (47.73%) 703 0.80 0.11 1,249 56.82% vs. Server
6 AT 8 Stats / Compare 66 (36.36%) 863 0.74 0.59 1,529 48.48% vs. Server
6 Škoda T 25 Stats / Compare 25 (20.00%) 534 0.32 1.48 988 68.00% vs. Server
6 B.U.G.I. Stats / Compare 18 (22.22%) 750 0.67 1.06 1,258,763 44.44% vs. Server
6 Bassotto Stats / Compare 32 (50.00%) 1,118 1.72 0.47 4,003,564 62.50% vs. Server
6 Bret. Panther Stats / Compare 8 (37.50%) 849 0.88 0.50 1,444 87.50% vs. Server
6 Chi-To Stats / Compare 18 (22.22%) 766 0.89 0.50 1,459 55.56% vs. Server
6 Crusader Stats / Compare 16 (12.50%) +3 458 -70.72 0.50 -0.12 3.00 +0.15 1,199 -384.64 43.75% -10.10% vs. Server
6 Hellcat Stats / Compare 35 (45.71%) 725 0.91 0.43 1,222 54.29% vs. Server
6 Hummel Stats / Compare 282 (43.62%) 620 0.72 0.02 761 47.52% vs. Server
6 Ikv 65 II Stats / Compare 56 (41.07%) 823 1.04 0.38 1,505 51.79% vs. Server
6 Jackson Stats / Compare 20 (35.00%) 579 0.80 0.10 949 60.00% vs. Server
6 Jg.Pz. IV Stats / Compare 25 (40.00%) 687 1.00 0.44 1,241 48.00% vs. Server
6 Ji-Ro Stats / Compare 24 (41.67%) 810 1.17 0.21 4,510,579 66.67% vs. Server
6 KV-1S Stats / Compare 12 (8.33%) 930 0.75 1.58 1,900 25.00% vs. Server
6 KV-2 Stats / Compare 8 (12.50%) 287 0.25 0.50 n/a 178 12.50% vs. Server
6 M4A1 FL 10 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 158 0.00 2.00 n/a 0 0.00% vs. Server
6 M6 Stats / Compare 19 (42.11%) 939 1.16 1.58 2,028 52.63% vs. Server
6 Nashorn Stats / Compare 549 (37.52%) +1 822 +1.09 1.01 0.28 1,411 +1.97 51.37% +0.09% vs. Server
6 P.43 bis Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) +1 717 -272.00 0.50 -0.50 0.50 n/a 1,022 -654.77 0.00% vs. Server
6 Pawlack Tank Stats / Compare 9 (0.00%) 430 0.44 1.11 508,276 33.33% vs. Server
6 Strv 74 Stats / Compare 42 (35.71%) 749 1.17 0.95 1,574 54.76% vs. Server
6 Strv m/42-57 Stats / Compare 12 (25.00%) 573 0.83 0.83 1,105 75.00% vs. Server
6 SU-100 Stats / Compare 18 (55.56%) 1,012 1.11 0.33 1,915 66.67% vs. Server
6 SU-100Y Stats / Compare 47 (42.55%) +1 1,055 -0.75 1.26 -0.01 0.23 -0.01 1,831 -16.30 51.06% -1.11% vs. Server
6 SU-8 Stats / Compare 30 (46.67%) 759 0.57 0.00 938 53.33% vs. Server
6 T-34-85 Stats / Compare 105 (28.57%) 666 0.74 0.93 1,277 55.24% vs. Server
6 T-34-85M Stats / Compare 98 (23.47%) +3 1,028 +14.77 1.08 +0.02 1.11 +0.02 1,833 +40.88 53.06% +0.43% vs. Server
6 T78 Stats / Compare 38 (28.95%) 1,036 1.13 0.68 1,607 50.00% vs. Server
6 Type 58 Stats / Compare 10 (40.00%) 961 1.00 1.80 2,294 70.00% vs. Server
6 Type 64 Stats / Compare 20 (15.00%) 332 0.35 2.65 634 50.00% vs. Server
6 VK 28.01 105 Stats / Compare 8 (0.00%) 40 0.25 4.63 23,876 50.00% vs. Server
6 VK 30.01 P Stats / Compare 56 (17.86%) 701 0.59 0.89 1,128 42.86% vs. Server
6 VK 30.02 M Stats / Compare 56 (23.21%) 729 0.95 1.11 1,571 55.36% vs. Server
6 VK 36.01 H Stats / Compare 39 (35.90%) 954 1.15 0.82 1,942 48.72% vs. Server
5 25TP Stats / Compare 62 (22.58%) 762 1.16 1.11 2,487 45.16% vs. Server
5 A-20 Stats / Compare 45 (17.78%) 168 0.36 1.62 510 44.44% vs. Server
5 AMX 13 AM Stats / Compare 85 (45.88%) 560 0.87 0.02 1,078 47.06% vs. Server
5 AMX ELC bis Stats / Compare 36 (36.11%) 563 1.00 5.36 2,603 55.56% vs. Server
5 AT 2 Stats / Compare 102 (40.20%) 778 1.42 0.38 2,028 44.12% vs. Server
5 Škoda T 24 Stats / Compare 26 (30.77%) 602 0.77 1.08 1,675 46.15% vs. Server
5 BDR G1 B Stats / Compare 180 (43.89%) 1,344 1.92 0.94 3,799 55.56% vs. Server
5 Bishop Stats / Compare 9 (33.33%) 863 1.00 0.11 2,130 55.56% vs. Server
5 Chi-Nu Stats / Compare 5 (0.00%) 331 0.80 1.00 772 40.00% vs. Server
5 Chi-Nu Kai Stats / Compare 54 (18.52%) 740 1.04 0.81 2,017 33.33% vs. Server
5 Churchill I Stats / Compare 12 (16.67%) 616 0.75 0.58 1,232 50.00% vs. Server
5 DS PZInż Stats / Compare 9 (0.00%) 656 0.56 0.78 817,023 22.22% vs. Server
5 Grille Stats / Compare 263 (46.77%) 610 0.98 0.04 1,311 53.99% vs. Server
5 Ho-Ni III Stats / Compare 5 (60.00%) 1,051 1.20 0.40 4,544,899 80.00% vs. Server
5 Ikv 103 Stats / Compare 120 (31.67%) 800 1.32 0.62 2,363 41.67% vs. Server
5 KV-1 Stats / Compare 96 (31.25%) 953 1.34 1.00 2,475 53.13% vs. Server
5 KV-1SA Stats / Compare 3 (33.33%) 1,569 2.67 2.00 3,629,732 66.67% vs. Server
5 leFH18B2 Stats / Compare 41 (53.66%) 884 1.49 0.12 1,993 43.90% vs. Server
5 Leopard Stats / Compare 19 (21.05%) 508 1.00 4.05 2,396 47.37% vs. Server
5 M10 RBFM Stats / Compare 37 (43.24%) 1,394 2.46 0.95 4,282 51.35% vs. Server
5 M4-85 Stats / Compare 4 (50.00%) 638 1.00 1.25 846,236 50.00% vs. Server
5 M41 HMC Stats / Compare 81 (41.98%) 569 0.77 0.01 667 34.57% vs. Server
5 M4A1 Stats / Compare 34 (41.18%) 825 1.26 1.15 2,610 55.88% vs. Server
5 P.43 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 106 0.00 0.00 n/a 0 0.00% vs. Server
5 Pz. IV F2 Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 1,030 1.50 0.50 1,815,913 50.00% vs. Server
5 Pz. IV H Stats / Compare 80 (26.25%) 679 1.10 1.30 2,073 52.50% vs. Server
5 Pz. T 25 Stats / Compare 21 (23.81%) 916 1.43 2.10 3,237 61.90% vs. Server
5 Pz.Sfl. IVc Stats / Compare 101 (46.53%) 1,147 1.83 0.46 3,373 58.42% vs. Server
5 S35 CA Stats / Compare 252 (44.84%) 1,064 1.75 0.51 3,033 57.54% vs. Server
5 Semovente Stats / Compare 14 (50.00%) 890 1.43 0.50 2,957,180 57.14% vs. Server
5 Strv m/42 Stats / Compare 22 (45.45%) 803 1.55 1.09 2,716 45.45% vs. Server
5 StuG III G Stats / Compare 12 (41.67%) 699 1.00 0.58 1,829 75.00% vs. Server
5 StuG IV Stats / Compare 17 (23.53%) 745 0.94 0.24 1,811 29.41% vs. Server
5 SU-122A Stats / Compare 18 (16.67%) 530 0.89 0.06 n/a 1,084 11.11% vs. Server
5 SU-85 Stats / Compare 43 (20.93%) 835 1.26 0.33 2,078 39.53% vs. Server
5 T-34 Stats / Compare 61 (22.95%) 525 0.90 0.85 1,475 44.26% vs. Server
5 T-34S Stats / Compare 26 (23.08%) 805 1.08 1.50 2,466 61.54% vs. Server
5 T1 Heavy Stats / Compare 23 (39.13%) 1,087 1.17 0.91 2,556 47.83% vs. Server
5 T14 Stats / Compare 21 (28.57%) 1,024 1.48 1.38 2,656 52.38% vs. Server
5 T67 Stats / Compare 70 (27.14%) 924 1.49 0.59 2,229 45.71% vs. Server
5 Type T-34 Stats / Compare 16 (18.75%) 710 1.00 1.44 2,108 43.75% vs. Server
5 VK 30.01 H Stats / Compare 170 (33.53%) 1,164 1.91 1.31 3,435 57.65% vs. Server
5 Wolverine Stats / Compare 176 (39.77%) 1,026 1.72 0.65 2,952 48.30% vs. Server
5 Zadymka Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 670 0.50 0.50 n/a 2,021,647 0.00% vs. Server
4 14TP Stats / Compare 15 (33.33%) +1 403 -19.32 0.80 -0.06 1.60 +0.17 1,783 -99.93 33.33% +4.76% vs. Server
4 B1 Stats / Compare 7 (42.86%) 842 1.71 1.00 3,719 57.14% vs. Server
4 BT-7 Stats / Compare 12 (16.67%) 117 0.42 1.75 354 41.67% vs. Server
4 Chi-He Stats / Compare 8 (12.50%) 1,266 2.38 1.88 7,081 37.50% vs. Server
4 Hetzer Stats / Compare 196 (33.16%) 677 1.65 0.54 2,245 45.92% vs. Server
4 M5A1 Stuart Stats / Compare 5 (0.00%) 368 0.80 2.20 1,468 40.00% vs. Server
4 M8A1 Stats / Compare 38 (44.74%) 714 1.34 0.42 2,375 52.63% vs. Server
4 Matilda Stats / Compare 18 (16.67%) 948 1.83 0.83 4,086 55.56% vs. Server
4 Pz. III J Stats / Compare 25 (28.00%) 510 1.28 1.60 2,199 52.00% vs. Server
4 Pz.Sfl. IVb Stats / Compare 56 (35.71%) 336 0.93 0.05 987 46.43% vs. Server
4 SAu 40 Stats / Compare 27 (44.44%) 720 1.41 0.11 2,381 55.56% vs. Server
4 Sav m/43 Stats / Compare 37 (43.24%) 756 1.59 0.30 2,782 48.65% vs. Server
4 ST vz. 39 Stats / Compare 4 (0.00%) 401 0.75 1.00 n/a 1,451 50.00% vs. Server
4 SU-76G FT Stats / Compare 15 (40.00%) 569 1.00 0.47 1,442 53.33% vs. Server
4 T6 Medium Stats / Compare 3 (100.00%) 542 0.33 0.00 679,524 66.67% vs. Server
4 T82 HMC Stats / Compare 4 (25.00%) 472 1.00 0.00 n/a 1,573 50.00% vs. Server
4 Valentine AT Stats / Compare 32 (40.63%) 532 0.72 0.19 1,776 46.88% vs. Server
3 10TP Stats / Compare 5 (0.00%) 493 0.40 1.80 2,030 40.00% vs. Server
3 LT vz. 38 Stats / Compare 4 (50.00%) 530 1.50 0.25 3,143 75.00% vs. Server
3 M3 Stuart Stats / Compare 6 (16.67%) 542 2.17 1.17 3,809 33.33% vs. Server
3 Marder II Stats / Compare 23 (26.09%) 206 0.91 0.13 451 43.48% vs. Server
3 Pz. 38 (t) Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 189 1.50 2.00 649 50.00% vs. Server
3 Pz. S35 Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 843 2.50 1.50 4,121 50.00% vs. Server
3 Sahariano Stats / Compare 13 (38.46%) 843 2.31 1.15 1,524,496 30.77% vs. Server
3 Somua S35 Stats / Compare 13 (46.15%) 757 2.00 0.85 3,849 53.85% vs. Server
3 Strv m/40L Stats / Compare 4 (25.00%) 617 1.00 2.00 2,793 0.00% vs. Server
3 T3 Convert. Stats / Compare 9 (11.11%) 599 0.56 3.22 576,991 22.22% vs. Server
3 Valentine Stats / Compare 12 (66.67%) 628 1.42 0.50 3,384 66.67% vs. Server
3 Wespe Stats / Compare 26 (34.62%) 207 0.73 0.08 549 38.46% vs. Server
2 AT-1 Stats / Compare 5 (40.00%) 86 0.40 0.00 356 80.00% vs. Server
2 BT-2 Stats / Compare 7 (28.57%) 71 0.43 1.57 275 57.14% vs. Server
2 FCM 36 Stats / Compare 2 (50.00%) 419 1.50 0.00 2,653 50.00% vs. Server
2 G.Pz. Mk. VI Stats / Compare 5 (40.00%) 130 0.80 0.00 664 40.00% vs. Server
2 M2 Light Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 732 1.00 1.00 4,110 100.00% vs. Server
2 Medium II Stats / Compare 8 (12.50%) 50 0.13 0.13 n/a 84 50.00% vs. Server
2 MKA Stats / Compare 6 (16.67%) 168 0.67 0.50 n/a 559 33.33% vs. Server
2 Pz. II Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 193 1.00 0.50 n/a 855 0.00% vs. Server
2 Pz.Jäg. I Stats / Compare 6 (16.67%) 143 0.67 0.50 435 50.00% vs. Server
1 4TP Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 172 0.50 1.00 n/a 867 0.00% vs. Server
1 MS-1 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 65 0.00 1.00 n/a 100 0.00% vs. Server
1 R. Otsu Stats / Compare 1 (100.00%) 522 1.00 0.00 n/a 3,490 0.00% vs. Server
1 Strv fm/21 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 0 0.00 2.00 n/a 0 0.00% vs. Server
1 T1 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 357 1.00 2.00 2,341 0.00% vs. Server

Gold cost of prem vehicles: 0
USD Value: $0.00

Creadits spent on regular vhicles: 0
Credits to gold: 0

Total Gold: 0
Total USD: $0.00

1 gold = 400 credits | 250 gold =$1.00 USD
(This feature is in testing so might not be accurate)