Players reyes_24    

1,312

1,312

Players Tanks: 204 All Tanks   |   Recent Tanks
Tier Nation Tank Type Battles (Survived%) Damage Frags Spotted Mastery WN8 Win Other Players
10 Kranvagn Stats / Compare 125 (28.00%) 2,594 1.16 1.04 2,182 54.40% vs. Server
10 Leopard 1 Stats / Compare 54 (18.52%) 2,203 1.26 1.09 2,049 53.70% vs. Server
10 STB-1 Stats / Compare 91 (27.47%) 1,938 0.93 1.11 1,499 45.05% vs. Server
10 WT E 100 Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 932 0.50 0.00 n/a 442 50.00% vs. Server
9 AE Phase I Stats / Compare 135 (25.93%) 2,084 0.99 1.21 1,891 54.81% vs. Server
9 Char Futur 4 Stats / Compare 52 (28.85%) 1,559 1.33 0.81 1,968,812 61.54% vs. Server
9 E 75 Stats / Compare 14 (21.43%) 772 0.29 0.21 568 57.14% vs. Server
9 Emil II Stats / Compare 98 (34.69%) 1,995 1.07 0.68 1,781 50.00% vs. Server
9 Leopard PT A Stats / Compare 145 (32.41%) 1,959 0.99 0.96 1,970 52.41% vs. Server
9 Standard B Stats / Compare 37 (21.62%) 1,066 0.65 0.65 869 62.16% vs. Server
9 T30 Stats / Compare 47 (21.28%) 1,419 0.68 0.62 1,105 51.06% vs. Server
9 Type 61 Stats / Compare 102 (28.43%) 1,509 0.92 0.70 1,377 44.12% vs. Server
9 UDES 16 Stats / Compare 13 (15.38%) 1,145 0.54 1.46 768 23.08% vs. Server
8 703 II (122) Stats / Compare 10 (30.00%) 1,920 1.00 1.20 2,008 50.00% vs. Server
8 AMX 50 100 Stats / Compare 52 (13.46%) 1,116 0.73 0.63 1,016 42.31% vs. Server
8 AMX 65 t Stats / Compare 11 (45.45%) 1,521 1.09 1.09 2,461 72.73% vs. Server
8 AMX M4 49 L Stats / Compare 70 (25.71%) 1,417 0.64 0.87 1,493 38.57% vs. Server
8 Škoda T 27 Stats / Compare 17 (29.41%) 1,142 0.65 1.00 1,228 52.94% vs. Server
8 Bisonte C45 Stats / Compare 19 (36.84%) 1,654 1.37 1.00 2,746,589 63.16% vs. Server
8 Caernarvon AX Stats / Compare 16 (25.00%) 1,321 0.69 1.06 1,595 62.50% vs. Server
8 Centurion I Stats / Compare 93 (24.73%) 940 0.60 1.04 1,040 41.94% vs. Server
8 CS-52 LIS Stats / Compare 13 (15.38%) 1,170 0.69 1.00 1,365,012 46.15% vs. Server
8 Emil I Stats / Compare 213 (27.70%) 1,167 0.66 0.70 1,122 50.70% vs. Server
8 GSOR 1008 Stats / Compare 46 (23.91%) 1,299 0.93 0.39 3,422,971 41.30% vs. Server
8 Indien-Pz. Stats / Compare 74 (22.97%) 1,308 0.74 0.93 1,712 51.35% vs. Server
8 IS-2-II Stats / Compare 290 (20.00%) 1,198 0.74 0.74 2,490,953 46.55% vs. Server
8 IS-3 Stats / Compare 99 (29.29%) 1,365 0.79 1.07 1,680 57.58% vs. Server
8 IS-5 Stats / Compare 100 (28.00%) 1,345 0.78 0.92 1,460 53.00% vs. Server
8 IS-6 Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 1,325 0.00 3.50 n/a 994 0.00% vs. Server
8 IS-M Stats / Compare 45 (13.33%) 779 0.40 0.58 578 35.56% vs. Server
8 ISU-152 Stats / Compare 88 (23.86%) 836 0.52 0.23 660 47.73% vs. Server
8 JPanther II Stats / Compare 181 (30.39%) 883 0.76 0.20 718 47.51% vs. Server
8 Löwe Stats / Compare 38 (36.84%) 1,090 0.50 0.76 1,234 71.05% vs. Server
8 Lynx 6x6 Stats / Compare 269 (16.36%) 636 0.49 2.07 953 45.35% vs. Server
8 M40/M43 Stats / Compare 69 (39.13%) 851 0.46 0.01 697 46.38% vs. Server
8 M6A2E1 Stats / Compare 12 (8.33%) 1,296 0.25 0.92 1,228 50.00% vs. Server
8 P.44 Pantera Stats / Compare 290 (22.07%) 1,090 0.86 0.89 1,244 46.21% vs. Server
8 P:Victoria Stats / Compare 5 (20.00%) 835 0.40 1.00 n/a 778 20.00% vs. Server
8 Panther II Stats / Compare 134 (24.63%) 1,085 0.60 0.64 1,228 45.52% vs. Server
8 Pershing Stats / Compare 94 (18.09%) 840 0.51 0.72 850 45.74% vs. Server
8 Progetto 54 Stats / Compare 104 (25.00%) 1,672 0.89 1.04 2,695,910 46.15% vs. Server
8 Renegade Stats / Compare 38 (34.21%) 1,382 0.84 1.03 1,291 55.26% vs. Server
8 STA-1 Stats / Compare 79 (41.77%) 1,086 0.89 0.72 1,384 51.90% vs. Server
8 Strv 81 Stats / Compare 7 (42.86%) 1,418 1.00 0.86 1,658 28.57% vs. Server
8 Strv S1 Stats / Compare 87 (33.33%) 1,480 0.90 0.30 1,415 47.13% vs. Server
8 T-34-3 Stats / Compare 67 (26.87%) 1,590 0.99 1.10 2,202 53.73% vs. Server
8 T-44 Stats / Compare 199 (29.65%) +2 951 -2.20 0.64 -0.01 0.84 -0.01 1,179 -11.96 50.25% -0.51% vs. Server
8 T-54 mod. 1 Stats / Compare 38 (36.84%) 1,288 1.03 1.24 1,799 55.26% vs. Server
8 T26E5 Stats / Compare 135 (28.89%) 937 0.66 0.79 980 47.41% vs. Server
8 T26E5 P Stats / Compare 464 (29.09%) 1,405 0.85 1.31 1,751 53.45% vs. Server
8 T28 Prot. Stats / Compare 99 (27.27%) 1,274 0.81 0.54 1,334 47.47% vs. Server
8 T34 B Stats / Compare 29 (13.79%) 1,066 0.79 0.62 1,209 48.28% vs. Server
8 T69 Stats / Compare 30 (50.00%) 892 0.77 0.50 950 50.00% vs. Server
8 Tiger II Stats / Compare 289 (26.64%) 1,120 0.71 0.76 1,260 49.83% vs. Server
8 TL-1 LPC Stats / Compare 74 (20.27%) 1,096 0.59 1.07 1,143 51.35% vs. Server
8 TS-5 Stats / Compare 38 (15.79%) 1,000 0.50 0.37 751 52.63% vs. Server
8 UDES 14 5 Stats / Compare 70 (40.00%) 961 0.93 0.74 1,076 58.57% vs. Server
8 VK 100.01 P Stats / Compare 20 (30.00%) 915 0.65 0.65 847 45.00% vs. Server
8 WZ-120-1 FT Stats / Compare 55 (34.55%) 1,092 0.76 0.29 787 36.36% vs. Server
7 AMX M4 45 Stats / Compare 20 (35.00%) 634 0.55 0.60 783 55.00% vs. Server
7 AT 15A Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 298 0.00 0.00 n/a 102 0.00% vs. Server
7 Carro P.88 Stats / Compare 84 (21.43%) 1,041 0.80 0.65 1,823,065 48.81% vs. Server
7 Chi-Ri Stats / Compare 71 (29.58%) 963 0.89 0.73 1,578 54.93% vs. Server
7 Comet Stats / Compare 86 (19.77%) 745 0.69 0.81 1,039 46.51% vs. Server
7 EBR Hotch. Stats / Compare 196 (5.61%) 400 0.39 1.90 635 46.94% vs. Server
7 IS Stats / Compare 86 (24.42%) 1,392 1.13 0.98 2,164 59.30% vs. Server
7 IS-2S Stats / Compare 100 (31.00%) 1,044 0.88 0.87 1,761,395 58.00% vs. Server
7 King Tiger (C) Stats / Compare 92 (21.74%) 1,259 0.74 1.13 1,636 55.43% vs. Server
7 KV-13 Stats / Compare 48 (16.67%) 626 0.50 0.71 802 45.83% vs. Server
7 KV-3 Stats / Compare 126 (19.05%) 825 0.54 0.45 879 46.83% vs. Server
7 Leo Stats / Compare 168 (22.02%) 759 0.65 1.16 1,117 51.79% vs. Server
7 M12 Stats / Compare 122 (45.08%) 806 0.46 0.03 894 49.18% vs. Server
7 P.43 ter Stats / Compare 69 (18.84%) 763 0.59 0.97 968 46.38% vs. Server
7 Panther Stats / Compare 35 (28.57%) 922 0.74 1.14 1,447 54.29% vs. Server
7 SU-14-1 Stats / Compare 2 (100.00%) 411 0.00 0.00 511 100.00% vs. Server
7 SU-152 Stats / Compare 162 (34.57%) 826 0.86 0.27 1,070 51.23% vs. Server
7 Super Hellcat Stats / Compare 33 (45.45%) 1,051 1.15 0.33 1,583 54.55% vs. Server
7 T-34-1 Stats / Compare 32 (50.00%) 979 0.94 1.19 1,665 65.63% vs. Server
7 T-43 Stats / Compare 80 (25.00%) 761 0.69 0.89 1,092 47.50% vs. Server
7 T20 Stats / Compare 42 (28.57%) 664 0.45 0.60 851 59.52% vs. Server
7 T25/2 Stats / Compare 60 (25.00%) 733 0.67 0.35 917 50.00% vs. Server
7 T28 HTC Stats / Compare 20 (40.00%) 914 0.50 0.35 1,108 55.00% vs. Server
7 T29 Stats / Compare 64 (28.13%) 1,379 0.94 1.13 1,833 57.81% vs. Server
7 T71 DA Stats / Compare 26 (7.69%) 676 0.50 1.08 1,210 53.85% vs. Server
7 Tiger (P) Stats / Compare 76 (32.89%) 1,074 0.82 0.97 1,505 56.58% vs. Server
7 Tiger I Stats / Compare 73 (21.92%) 868 0.70 0.73 1,037 47.95% vs. Server
7 VK 30.02 D Stats / Compare 38 (26.32%) 1,103 1.18 1.16 2,011 50.00% vs. Server
7 Vz. 44-1 Stats / Compare 67 (19.40%) 1,019 0.67 0.93 1,761,016 49.25% vs. Server
6 AMD 178B Stats / Compare 8 (25.00%) 177 0.50 1.00 403 62.50% vs. Server
6 AMX 12 t Stats / Compare 18 (44.44%) 779 1.06 3.72 2,873 66.67% vs. Server
6 AMX 13 F3 Stats / Compare 10 (60.00%) 924 0.60 0.00 1,362 70.00% vs. Server
6 ARL 44 Stats / Compare 7 (14.29%) 943 0.29 2.29 1,602 71.43% vs. Server
6 Škoda T 25 Stats / Compare 84 (22.62%) 824 1.06 1.33 1,821 53.57% vs. Server
6 Bret. Panther Stats / Compare 2 (50.00%) 411 2.00 1.00 522 50.00% vs. Server
6 Chi-To Stats / Compare 90 (32.22%) 722 0.87 0.61 1,360 50.00% vs. Server
6 Cromwell Stats / Compare 135 (24.44%) 777 1.00 1.33 1,545 49.63% vs. Server
6 Hellcat Stats / Compare 88 (34.09%) 562 0.75 0.42 902 55.68% vs. Server
6 Ikv 65 II Stats / Compare 31 (32.26%) 803 0.68 0.19 1,242 45.16% vs. Server
6 Jackson Stats / Compare 34 (20.59%) 369 0.47 0.47 412 44.12% vs. Server
6 KV-1S Stats / Compare 28 (28.57%) 648 0.71 0.86 1,437 75.00% vs. Server
6 KV-2 Stats / Compare 182 (26.92%) 975 1.00 0.63 1,788 51.10% vs. Server
6 M44 Stats / Compare 158 (41.77%) 668 0.60 0.05 1,070 51.90% vs. Server
6 M4A1 FL 10 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 822 1.00 0.00 n/a 1,149 0.00% vs. Server
6 M4A3E8 Stats / Compare 38 (26.32%) 675 0.68 0.95 1,226 50.00% vs. Server
6 M6 Stats / Compare 44 (6.82%) 628 0.43 0.75 873 45.45% vs. Server
6 O-I Stats / Compare 14 (42.86%) 863 1.14 0.50 1,588 57.14% vs. Server
6 P.43 bis Stats / Compare 104 (23.08%) 729 0.88 0.89 1,408 50.00% vs. Server
6 Strv 74 Stats / Compare 52 (23.08%) 593 0.58 0.75 891 42.31% vs. Server
6 SU-100Y Stats / Compare 10 (20.00%) 657 0.60 0.30 856 40.00% vs. Server
6 Super Chaffee Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 0 0.00 0.00 n/a 261 100.00% vs. Server
6 T-150 Stats / Compare 54 (22.22%) 535 0.56 0.54 708 44.44% vs. Server
6 T-34-85 Stats / Compare 165 (22.42%) 892 1.03 1.18 1,960 56.36% vs. Server
6 T-34-85M Stats / Compare 38 (26.32%) 1,040 1.29 1.21 1,924 47.37% vs. Server
6 T78 Stats / Compare 8 (25.00%) 669 0.50 1.50 745 12.50% vs. Server
6 Thunderbolt Stats / Compare 20 (35.00%) 1,215 1.55 1.10 2,754 50.00% vs. Server
6 Tiger 131 Stats / Compare 20 (40.00%) 1,394 1.20 0.60 2,738 70.00% vs. Server
6 VK 28.01 105 Stats / Compare 7 (14.29%) 528 0.86 1.14 391,079 57.14% vs. Server
6 VK 30.01 P Stats / Compare 58 (20.69%) 814 0.79 1.09 1,587 56.90% vs. Server
6 VK 30.02 M Stats / Compare 51 (31.37%) 903 0.96 1.16 2,013 58.82% vs. Server
6 VK 36.01 H Stats / Compare 59 (27.12%) 527 0.56 0.69 797 49.15% vs. Server
5 AMX ELC bis Stats / Compare 19 (31.58%) 511 0.79 1.26 1,948 63.16% vs. Server
5 Škoda T 24 Stats / Compare 14 (21.43%) 302 0.29 0.50 789 78.57% vs. Server
5 BDR G1 B Stats / Compare 2 (0.00%) 117 0.00 0.00 n/a 97 50.00% vs. Server
5 Cavalier Stats / Compare 10 (10.00%) 300 0.70 0.50 405,004 40.00% vs. Server
5 Chi-Nu Stats / Compare 26 (23.08%) 553 0.73 0.62 1,541 57.69% vs. Server
5 Ikv 103 Stats / Compare 28 (21.43%) 551 0.89 0.18 1,216 32.14% vs. Server
5 KV-1 Stats / Compare 55 (34.55%) 748 1.05 0.47 1,596 49.09% vs. Server
5 KV-1SA Stats / Compare 7 (42.86%) 851 1.86 0.86 1,745,292 85.71% vs. Server
5 M10 RBFM Stats / Compare 71 (26.76%) 745 0.85 0.48 1,551 43.66% vs. Server
5 M41 HMC Stats / Compare 42 (33.33%) 350 0.55 0.00 290 38.10% vs. Server
5 M4A1 Stats / Compare 25 (12.00%) 691 0.92 1.04 1,722 40.00% vs. Server
5 O-I Exp. Stats / Compare 12 (33.33%) 347 0.58 0.67 555 58.33% vs. Server
5 P.43 Stats / Compare 27 (25.93%) 726 0.89 0.89 2,254 62.96% vs. Server
5 Pz. IV H Stats / Compare 85 (14.12%) 382 0.65 0.80 910 51.76% vs. Server
5 StuG III G Stats / Compare 20 (15.00%) 489 0.65 0.15 928 45.00% vs. Server
5 StuG IV Stats / Compare 15 (26.67%) 559 0.73 0.13 1,376 53.33% vs. Server
5 SU-85 Stats / Compare 27 (29.63%) 644 1.30 0.26 1,685 59.26% vs. Server
5 T-34 Stats / Compare 5 (0.00%) 264 0.00 0.60 n/a 404 20.00% vs. Server
5 T-34S Stats / Compare 24 (20.83%) 810 0.71 1.46 2,061 41.67% vs. Server
5 T1 Heavy Stats / Compare 40 (22.50%) 876 1.05 1.03 2,182 60.00% vs. Server
5 Type T-34 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 0 0.00 2.00 n/a 261 100.00% vs. Server
5 Valiant Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 0 0.00 0.00 n/a 261 100.00% vs. Server
5 VK 30.01 H Stats / Compare 10 (0.00%) 331 0.30 0.10 383 30.00% vs. Server
5 Wolverine Stats / Compare 65 (24.62%) 468 0.71 0.40 950 50.77% vs. Server
4 14TP Stats / Compare 3 (0.00%) 175 1.33 0.67 n/a 494 0.00% vs. Server
4 AMX 40 Stats / Compare 8 (25.00%) 79 0.63 0.75 90 37.50% vs. Server
4 B1 Stats / Compare 7 (14.29%) 207 0.14 0.86 n/a 409 28.57% vs. Server
4 BT-7 Stats / Compare 40 (5.00%) 233 0.40 2.53 967 37.50% vs. Server
4 Luchs Stats / Compare 13 (23.08%) 539 0.62 3.00 2,173 53.85% vs. Server
4 M5A1 Stuart Stats / Compare 4 (25.00%) 261 0.75 1.00 849 25.00% vs. Server
4 M8A1 Stats / Compare 3 (0.00%) 378 1.00 0.00 1,133 66.67% vs. Server
4 Matilda Stats / Compare 47 (12.77%) 679 1.49 0.83 2,450 44.68% vs. Server
4 P26/40 Stats / Compare 40 (27.50%) 589 0.90 0.53 1,864 50.00% vs. Server
4 Pz. 38 nA Stats / Compare 31 (12.90%) 197 0.32 0.74 659 58.06% vs. Server
4 Pz. B2 Stats / Compare 63 (12.70%) 499 1.25 1.48 1,367 44.44% vs. Server
4 Pz. III J Stats / Compare 26 (26.92%) 544 1.23 1.15 2,322 42.31% vs. Server
4 Pz.Sfl. IC Stats / Compare 25 (36.00%) 441 1.04 0.56 1,099,898 44.00% vs. Server
4 Sav m/43 Stats / Compare 8 (50.00%) 333 0.50 0.25 1,009 87.50% vs. Server
4 StuG III B Stats / Compare 1 (100.00%) 133 1.00 0.00 359 100.00% vs. Server
4 SU-76G FT Stats / Compare 3 (33.33%) 337 0.67 0.33 n/a 867 100.00% vs. Server
4 T-28 Stats / Compare 41 (19.51%) 566 1.00 1.34 2,168 53.66% vs. Server
4 T-34 1941 Stats / Compare 5 (20.00%) 334 0.40 1.60 314,212 80.00% vs. Server
4 T40 Stats / Compare 8 (25.00%) 232 0.63 0.50 555 62.50% vs. Server
4 T6 Medium Stats / Compare 19 (36.84%) 687 1.79 1.47 1,118,342 73.68% vs. Server
4 Type 95 Stats / Compare 23 (21.74%) 231 0.61 0.52 720 52.17% vs. Server
3 10TP Stats / Compare 13 (15.38%) 181 0.62 1.15 664 46.15% vs. Server
3 AMX 38 Stats / Compare 3 (0.00%) 93 0.33 0.67 189 33.33% vs. Server
3 BT-5 Stats / Compare 17 (11.76%) 337 0.53 2.24 330,975 47.06% vs. Server
3 BT-7 art. Stats / Compare 5 (20.00%) 307 0.20 0.60 1,422 60.00% vs. Server
3 Chi-Ha Stats / Compare 6 (16.67%) 736 2.67 1.50 4,592 83.33% vs. Server
3 FCM36Pak40 Stats / Compare 24 (41.67%) 247 0.96 0.83 829 66.67% vs. Server
3 M15/42 Stats / Compare 10 (40.00%) 526 1.10 0.90 2,263 70.00% vs. Server
3 Pz. 38 (t) Stats / Compare 9 (22.22%) 360 1.78 0.89 1,661 55.56% vs. Server
3 Pz. I C Stats / Compare 11 (27.27%) 397 1.27 1.27 2,266 72.73% vs. Server
3 Sahariano Stats / Compare 8 (37.50%) 607 1.50 1.88 969,032 62.50% vs. Server
3 Sexton I Stats / Compare 6 (50.00%) 384 1.67 0.00 2,022 66.67% vs. Server
3 Somua S35 Stats / Compare 13 (23.08%) 679 1.54 0.85 3,317 7.69% vs. Server
3 Strv m/40L Stats / Compare 10 (20.00%) 298 0.30 0.90 950 40.00% vs. Server
3 T-116 Stats / Compare 4 (0.00%) 350 0.50 2.50 1,592 0.00% vs. Server
3 T-127 Stats / Compare 18 (33.33%) 288 1.39 1.06 1,303 72.22% vs. Server
3 T-29 Stats / Compare 12 (41.67%) 421 1.33 1.25 2,200 58.33% vs. Server
3 T-70 Stats / Compare 15 (6.67%) 450 1.00 0.67 2,071 60.00% vs. Server
3 T3 Convert. Stats / Compare 3 (0.00%) 155 0.00 1.33 132,252 33.33% vs. Server
3 T56 GMC Stats / Compare 9 (55.56%) 268 0.56 0.33 958 77.78% vs. Server
3 Type 91 Stats / Compare 20 (25.00%) 263 1.45 0.60 1,283 70.00% vs. Server
3 Valentine Stats / Compare 9 (33.33%) 516 1.00 1.22 2,704 55.56% vs. Server
2 7TP Stats / Compare 4 (25.00%) 245 1.00 0.25 1,149 50.00% vs. Server
2 AMR 35 Stats / Compare 14 (35.71%) 285 0.57 0.79 1,745 78.57% vs. Server
2 BT-2 Stats / Compare 3 (66.67%) 539 1.33 0.67 3,656 100.00% vs. Server
2 Cruiser II Stats / Compare 3 (0.00%) 741 1.67 1.33 4,015 33.33% vs. Server
2 I-Go/Chi-Ro Stats / Compare 6 (16.67%) 155 0.67 1.00 701 50.00% vs. Server
2 M14/41 Stats / Compare 3 (66.67%) 471 1.33 0.00 2,621 100.00% vs. Server
2 Pz. 35 (t) Stats / Compare 1 (100.00%) 231 2.00 0.00 1,468 100.00% vs. Server
2 R35 Stats / Compare 5 (40.00%) 126 0.60 0.60 610 60.00% vs. Server
2 T-45 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 0 0.00 1.00 n/a 0 0.00% vs. Server
2 T-60 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 0 0.00 1.00 n/a 0 0.00% vs. Server
2 T3 HMC Stats / Compare 3 (0.00%) 127 1.33 0.67 355 33.33% vs. Server
2 TKS 20 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 589 1.00 1.00 4,190 0.00% vs. Server
1 4TP Stats / Compare 3 (66.67%) 300 2.00 1.33 2,454 66.67% vs. Server
1 Fiat 3000 Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 533 0.00 1.00 3,199 100.00% vs. Server
1 FT Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 73 1.00 2.00 470 100.00% vs. Server
1 K-housenka Stats / Compare 1 (0.00%) 382 1.00 0.00 2,545 100.00% vs. Server
1 R. Otsu Stats / Compare 1 (100.00%) 229 2.00 1.00 1,978 100.00% vs. Server
1 T1 Stats / Compare 5 (40.00%) 217 0.60 1.60 1,369 60.00% vs. Server

Gold cost of prem vehicles: 0
USD Value: $0.00

Creadits spent on regular vhicles: 0
Credits to gold: 0

Total Gold: 0
Total USD: $0.00

1 gold = 400 credits | 250 gold =$1.00 USD
(This feature is in testing so might not be accurate)